{"id":211,"date":"2014-08-21T10:04:15","date_gmt":"2014-08-21T14:04:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=211"},"modified":"2014-08-21T10:04:32","modified_gmt":"2014-08-21T14:04:32","slug":"211","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=211","title":{"rendered":"Fixture Cost Frustration"},"content":{"rendered":"

One of my clients has expressed frustration with the caveats I place at the end of my lighting fixture budget. Why can\u2019t I give the client a simple budget estimate? The answer is that fixture manufacturers don\u2019t have a manufacturer\u2019s suggested retail price (MSRP) for their products, which is something we\u2019ve all come to expect for products ranging from potato chips to cars. We all know that things we want to buy have an MSRP or list price and it\u2019s up to the seller to decide whether or not to sell at a lower price.<\/p>\n

However, with lighting equipment the sales representative and the manufacturer collaborate to establish pricing for each project (see chapter 9). Larger projects with more luminaires will usually pay less per luminaire. This can be frustrating for everyone. It\u2019s hard to develop a reliable fixture cost database when fixture costs are variable.<\/p>\n

Another issue with pricing from the sales rep is that it is usually dealer net, distributor net, or DN pricing. This means that the luminaire price the sales rep gives to the designer is the price that the electrical distributor will pay the manufacturer. It does not include the electrical distributor\u2019s markup for overhead and profit, nor does it include possible markups by the electrical contractor and\/or the general contractor.\u00a0\u00a0 It is up to the lighting designer to estimate the total markup(s) as well as taxes, shipping and such, and add that amount to the projected lighting fixture budget, but designers have no direct knowledge of what markup these firms will add, nor do we have any control over their markups. The result is that I wind up footnoting my budget with notes like markup percentages are estimated, pricing is based on cost estimates provided by sales representative, and pricing is based on projects of similar size and scope.<\/p>\n

Finally, as I explained here<\/a>, the fixtures that I specify may not be purchased for the project. Once substitutions enter the picture another layer of mystery is added. Yes, it\u2019s complicated. Here\u2019s a flow chart that tries to explain the flow of information (denoted by question marks) and money (denoted by dollar signs) of design and sales relationships. See chapter 9 for a full explanation.<\/p>\n

\"fixture<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

One of my clients has expressed frustration with the caveats I place at the end of my lighting fixture budget. Why can\u2019t I give the client a simple budget estimate? The answer is that fixture manufacturers don\u2019t have a manufacturer\u2019s suggested retail price (MSRP) for their products, which is something we\u2019ve all come to expect … Continue reading Fixture Cost Frustration<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[18,7,19,10],"tags":[57,49],"class_list":["post-211","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-design","category-documentation","category-lighting-profession","category-luminaires","tag-fixture-costs","tag-specifications"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/s4gZSw-211","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":979,"url":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=979","url_meta":{"origin":211,"position":0},"title":"Tariffs Impact Lighting Costs","author":"Jason Livingston","date":"May 31, 2019","format":false,"excerpt":"We have been hearing from contractors that many fixture manufacturers, including Acuity Brands, Hubbell Lighting and Eaton, are being forced to raise prices because of the recent tariff increase\u00a0on Chinese goods. \u00a0 The tariff on lighting components and fixtures was\u00a010%. \u00a0However, on May 10th the tariff was raised to 25%.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Luminaires"","block_context":{"text":"Luminaires","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?cat=10"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":258,"url":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=258","url_meta":{"origin":211,"position":1},"title":"Student Custom Fixtures","author":"Jason Livingston","date":"December 4, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"The main design assignment for this \u00a0semester's Pratt students is a cafe. \u00a0The students selected their own interior design and had to develop a custom lighting fixture that is integrated with that design. \u00a0Here area few of this semester's \u00a0fixtures. \u00a0","rel":"","context":"In "Design"","block_context":{"text":"Design","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?cat=18"},"img":{"alt_text":"Lauren Mercuri","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/designinglight.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2014\/12\/IMG_0452-225x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":3392,"url":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=3392","url_meta":{"origin":211,"position":2},"title":"Back to Basics with ALA","author":"Jason Livingston","date":"July 31, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"On August 16th I'll be giving a presentation for the American Lighting Association (ALA) called Back to Basics: Fixtures, Spacing, and Techniques. \u00a0Here's their description. This course will provide an introductory level overview of common fixture types and how they should be spaced\/installed. Downlights, wall washers, wall grazers, under shelf,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Design"","block_context":{"text":"Design","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?cat=18"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":360,"url":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=360","url_meta":{"origin":211,"position":3},"title":"With LEDs, Knowledge is Power","author":"Jason Livingston","date":"March 29, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"I\u2019ve been hired to review an architect\u2019s lighting design and then design an appropriate control system. The fixtures selected are all LED products by a manufacturer that falls into the high-end residential\/economy commercial range of quality and price. The cut sheets are extremely frustrating. After nearly a decade of LED\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Design"","block_context":{"text":"Design","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?cat=18"},"img":{"alt_text":"\"CIExy1931 MacAdam\". Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons - http:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:CIExy1931_MacAdam.png#\/media\/File:CIExy1931_MacAdam.png","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/designinglight.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2015\/03\/CIExy1931_MacAdam-271x300.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":722,"url":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=722","url_meta":{"origin":211,"position":4},"title":"IoT Lighting? No Thanks.","author":"Jason Livingston","date":"May 15, 2017","format":false,"excerpt":"The current global cyber-attack, combined with last year\u2019s \u201cdenial of service attack has me thinking about the lighting industry and IoT. It was ironic that last year\u2019s attack happened just days before the IES annual conference, at which IoT lighting was touted as the next big thing that everyone had\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Controls"","block_context":{"text":"Controls","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?cat=9"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":625,"url":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?p=625","url_meta":{"origin":211,"position":5},"title":"Custom Fixture Assignment","author":"Jason Livingston","date":"May 2, 2016","format":false,"excerpt":"One of the assignments I frequently give my students is to make a custom fixture based on a theme or on a design style. \u00a0Here are a few of this semester's best. \u00a0 \u00a0","rel":"","context":"In "Education"","block_context":{"text":"Education","link":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/?cat=21"},"img":{"alt_text":"Hunger by Emily Roise","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/designinglight.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/IMG_0699-238x300.jpg?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/211","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=211"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/211\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":216,"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/211\/revisions\/216"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=211"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=211"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/designinglight.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=211"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}